16: Simple Habits To Tackle Hard Problems w/ Sarah Ramsey

[00:00:00] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: A little more than a month ago, today’s guest was actually interviewing me for her podcast called Toxic Person Proof, and we were having a great conversation after she stopped recording. We were talking about her new book called Problem Solved and just About life and faith. My phone was on silent, of course, cuz I didn't wanna interrupt the interview, but I could see that my mom called and then a few minutes later she called again.

[00:00:34] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: I didn't think much about it because my mom can be a little persistent sometimes when she can't get ahold of me. But then the thing you never wanna see, she sent a text that said, "Call me 911." 

[00:00:58] Podcast Intro: There's just no other way to say it, jealousy sucks! And I know you do anything to not be jealous, but you just can't shake it. Obsessive thoughts, knots of anxiety in your stomach, disastrous nights out, and even ruined relationships. I've been there. Welcome to Jealousy Junkie, the podcast to help you go from that jealous and anxious feeling in your relationship to calm and confident.

[00:01:24] Podcast Intro: My name is Shanenn Bryant, and as one of the few who focus on overcoming jealousy, I'll be right here to support you through the painful range of emotions, tackle your jealous reactions, and bring your sanity check questions to the table. 

[00:01:39] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: I'm gonna share a story with you that might freak you out a little bit, but this book actually came in handy for me. Your book is called Problem Solved, Simple Habits for Complex Decisions. 

[00:01:53] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: So, Sarah, you and I were talking, you were interviewing me for your podcast. We had a great conversation after we stopped recording. We were talking about faith, and you were kind of telling this story with angels and we were really on a good role of a story and while you were speaking, I saw my phone ring a couple times.

[00:02:18] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: It was my mom. I could see my phone ringing. Luckily, I did not see her text until you and I got done, but when you and I got off our call, I looked at the text and it said, "Call me 911." And we know that that's never good. So, she was calling to let me know that my father passed away. 

[00:02:37] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: There were so many things, and it's still ongoing. I have just been probably the most overwhelmed I've been in my entire life, but having to also then go through your book and reading, like, I think I heard you say, we make about 35,000 decisions a day. And I was like, I think mine's double at the moment just because of everything, you know, going on. But it was really a great read for me during that time and just wanted to say thank you to you because I was forced to read it, to prepare for this, and kind of helped to go...

[00:03:10] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Okay, so there's a list of 50,000 things that I have to get done and I have to make decisions on, and that me and my brothers have to make decisions on. So many decisions, even, you know, down to funeral arrangements, what we're gonna do with this home, all of the the things in this home. One of the things that I really took from it, and that you talk a lot about in this book that I think is also helpful for someone who's dealing with jealousy is... what is the problem really?

[00:03:39] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: So, will you talk about that piece of it, because I felt like it was very helpful. 

[00:03:44] Sarah Ramsey: Well, thank you. I'll be happy to, And I'm so sorry about your dad. 

[00:03:48] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Oh, thank you. 

[00:03:49] Sarah Ramsey: Crazy timing, right? And yeah, and as I was writing this book, they tell you not to write a book for everyone. Right. And so now it's like, okay, yeah, I wrote this little manual, and it will make everything easier and help you solve every problem better.

[00:04:06] Sarah Ramsey: And that sounds crazy, right? I mean, when you say it out loud, it's like, what do you mean it solves every problem? But it's your thinking process behind the problem you're trying to solve. So, I call "what problem are you trying to solve?", the magic question.

[00:04:24] Sarah Ramsey: I used it in a conversation I was having with my husband today. He was talking about something at work, and I said, well, it seems like you know those people, you need a new strategy for influencing them. And he's like yeah but, you know, this and this, this culture is saying this and this is happening here.

[00:04:39] Sarah Ramsey: And it was interesting cuz we were trying to solve two different problems. And that's a communication language that really gets us on the same page. It's like, okay, so the problem you're trying to solve is changing a culture. And the problem I'm trying to solve is individual influence within meetings.

[00:04:55] Sarah Ramsey: Those aren't the same strategy, right? Like it's not even close to the same action plan for, both of those things. But how often do we think in those terms to even get clear about what problem we're trying to solve? And in the case of jealousy, uh, from my own experience with my lovely husband, what I can say is he dated a lot and I dated a little.

[00:05:17] Sarah Ramsey: I was divorced but he dated a lot, and I dated a little. So, I just had in my head like this idea of all these women that all together were more amazing than me. So, the problem I was trying to solve, so the magic question in the book, always ask yourself, what problem are you trying to solve? Cause that's...we're all problem-solving machines.

[00:05:37] Sarah Ramsey: We all want like puzzles and clues and mysteries and detect it, right? So, our brains are already built that way. So, we wanna use it as tailwind behind us rather than headwind. So, if you're facing a thousand decisions like how do I manage this family situation and give my father appropriate funeral? Or how do I not lose my ever-loving mind every time he's got his phone turned down, And that's just crazy. Right? So, the problem I was trying to solve within that jealousy conversation is security. It's like, how can I know the future and know that nothing's gonna change and know that I'm gonna be with him?

[00:06:22] Sarah Ramsey: But in that conversation, uh, there are emotional problems to solve and practical problems to solve. 

[00:06:30] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Ooh, yes. Go into detail about the two different ones. And I do wanna say, I think it's really great how you break this down and how you break down, like trying to figure out the actual problem to solve.

[00:06:45] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: And I always tell people when they struggle with jealousy is that jealousy is actually the solution. It's trying to solve some problem. Whether that's, hey, there really is something going on, or, you’ve got some insecurities or issues or things that you need to maybe take a look at. So, jealousy is really the solution to the problem that you're trying to solve, and we try to come at it from the wrong angel, so I love this conversation. 

[00:07:12] Sarah Ramsey: I want you to imagine that you have sticky notes, okay? And you're sticking labels on the problem. Okay? So when I was jealous over my relationship, the practical problem to solve that he and I had, cause he would travel out of town for work all the time. Okay. That could be a real issue.

[00:07:37] Sarah Ramsey: So, there's two different problems to solve. One, my fear and jealousy. My insecurity and how do we solve the practical problem of making sure we're connecting when he's out of town.

[00:07:55] Sarah Ramsey: You know, him answering my phone calls, you know him sending a good morning text, maybe we FaceTime at night so I can kind of just ease that burden off my soul. But you think about those sticky note labels, okay? Is this an emotional problem to solve, or a practical problem to solve? Mm-hmm Okay. So, a practical solution to jealousy, upset, insecurity; I need an emotional solution to that. You know, maybe it's therapy, maybe it's a coach, maybe it's a reading, a book, maybe it's whatever. I know you're the expert in strategies on solving that problem, 

[00:08:41] Sarah Ramsey: But the practical problem to solve, hey, will you please text me before you go to bed? Cause sometimes he would be on the West coast, and I'd be on the east coast.

[00:08:53] Sarah Ramsey: So the practical solution, hey, can you maybe even just like send a good night snapshot? You know, little things like that that could solve the practical problem but be very clear.

[00:09:17] Sarah Ramsey: I see a lot of people and they have an emotional problem and they wanna solve it with a practical solution. Him Face Timing me even at 1:00 AM. It's not going to solve the problem of my jealousy, right? It will connect us. It is better, you know, it is some type of kindness and security blanket and all that kind of stuff.

[00:09:35] Sarah Ramsey: It's not gonna solve the problem; like I have to have an emotional solution for an emotional problem. 

[00:09:41] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Uh, I love that way of looking at it, and you're right, because there could be a time where he's not gonna be able to do that or that it's just not gonna work out in that way. So trying to solve an emotional problem with one of those types of solutions in the long run, it's, it's not going to work. You've still gotta fix that emotional piece of it. 

[00:10:04] Sarah Ramsey: Guys, this shows up in career. You're mad at your coworker, there's a practical, so there's a communication problem, right? So, there's a practical problem, or someone's always stealing your food out of the fridge at lunch, and the practical solution is putting your name on the front rather than just being mad about it, Right? 

[00:10:20] Sarah Ramsey: There's little problems and there's big problems. Mm-hmm. , and it's the same thinking process and so I'm so glad you used the term problem solvers because it already assumes that you are capable of solving the problem. It's kind of this like, it's almost like a dog command.

[00:10:35] Sarah Ramsey: It's like, good dog, good dog. And the dog's like, Yeah, I wanna be a good dog. It's like problem solver, problem solver. It's like, yeah, I wanna be a problem solver. Right? And it does good things for our brain because we're not in victim mentality. We're not in helplessness. We're not in despair, we’re not in, And you may have been a victim of something. I have been a victim of something. I'm not minimizing anyone's pain. I'm saying the way out is forward. 

[00:11:00] Sarah Ramsey: And when you learn to become the most powerful problem solver in your own life, you do feel like you have more time. You do feel like you have less stress, you do feel like, and any woman in the entire world, I'm like, Man, if you start using the magic question in your male relationships, what problem are we looking to solve here?

[00:11:18] Sarah Ramsey: Guys are like, I love this. Cause they're problem solvers, right? And so that is a language me and my husband use all the time. And, you know, we went to lunch before this and I'm turning 40 soon and I'm trying to super healthy by 40. Writing a book is terrible for your health. 

[00:11:38] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: For your body and your health. Yeah. 

[00:11:40] Sarah Ramsey: And you just sit and then you have to edit and all this kind of stuff. It's just terrible for your health. So I'm like, okay, books out, you know, turning 40, new priority. And so the problem my husband was trying to solve at lunch was to get the best meal for the least amount of money.

[00:11:57] Sarah Ramsey: The problem I was trying to solve at lunch was getting the most protein and the least. We weren't talking the same problem. But it could be, you know, asking someone to pick up the kids from school on Thursday. And the problem you're trying to solve is that your job is respected.

[00:12:17] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Mm-hmm 

[00:12:18] Sarah Ramsey: It has nothing to do with the kids being picked up at school on Thursday. It's like the problem I'm trying to solve is I need you to respect that I'm professional too. Right. And you can say that to men, they love it cuz it takes out all the guesswork. They do not like guessing. They do not like guessing games.

[00:12:35] Sarah Ramsey: So, it helps you with your own clarity. But it's a, it's a great communication tactic as well. 

[00:12:40] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Yes, and you're right. I mean, men love to solve our problems and a lot of times that's what they're trying to do anyway. And so if we can break it down in this way, and then going even further, as you mentioned, of breaking it down into, Okay, is this an emotional problem? What type of problem is it? 

[00:12:57] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: You also talk about spaghetti thinking, I liked this too. I so live by this. When we're taking just one thing, can we just try one thing? Because there's so much information that is just pushed and forced on people, and both of us are in this self-development growth space. And there's so much that people can get really overwhelmed of like, Oh my gosh, not just like, where do I start and what do I do first? But also, oh, I'm not doing so well because I'm not great at this and I haven't done this yet and I haven't done this. 

[00:13:34] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Talk to me about the spaghetti thinking, what that is. Can you explain that and how we can... 

[00:13:40] Sarah Ramsey: Navigate it? Absolutely. And I want just to kind of, you mentioned that we made 35,000 decisions a day. Well, most of us probably did not have a great decision-making class in school. So we literally have more information in our heads at our fingertips. So, we do need a strategy to navigate that.

[00:13:59] Sarah Ramsey: I actually was trying to decide whether or not to get a divorce and was in spaghetti thinking. And so I was like this whole process, I was a pastor's kid, right? Divorcing my student pastor's brother. It was a pretty sticky situation. Okay, so my spaghetti thinking in this very serious complicated matter is, 

[00:14:18] Sarah Ramsey: Oh my gosh, where am I gonna live? Everyone's gonna think I'm a terrible person. How am I gonna support myself? Where am I gonna get a job? Which lawyer am I gonna choose? Are people gonna be mad at my dad? Is my dad gonna get fired cuz I'm getting a divorce? Am I making the right decision? Oh my gosh, is God really gonna hate me? Right?

[00:14:34] Sarah Ramsey: These were just the spaghetti thinking. And if you were asking me what problem I was trying to solve, I'd be like, Well, my life, everything, everything. But when it's everything, it's really hard to pull. That's why I call it spaghetti thinking cuz it's like I needed one noodle from the pile and to solve that problem. 

[00:14:54] Sarah Ramsey: So when you think about the difference in spaghetti and waffles ok. spaghettis messy. It's mixed up. There's sauce, there's, you know, all things are connected just like in my life. My divorce really was connected to my father's job and really was connected with the church community and really was connected with my faith.

[00:15:11] Sarah Ramsey: But a waffle... one bite at a time. One square, Okay, so which lawyer am I going to use? That's it. It's its own box, right? I don't get to bring in guilt over my father in the lawyer box. Where am I going to live? One noodle, one square. Here we go. I'm in a box. I'm sticking here. Okay, I'm gonna solve the problem where am I gonna live? Where am I gonna work? 

[00:15:33] Sarah Ramsey: Cause I was working for the church at the time too, but I remember thinking, Oh, I'm stuck in spaghetti thinking. My life is a big fat spaghetti mess that I'm going to have to waffle down to start to move forward. Cuz I have to solve one problem at a time.

[00:15:50] Sarah Ramsey: But what that could look like, I'll use the example with my husband and, uh, jealousy. It's like, oh my gosh, my husband's always out of town and travels for work and it's really great because, you know, we have all these perks cuz he works out of town. He does really well at his job and I know he likes it and I really do want to be supportive of him, but oh my gosh, what if he's cheating on me and I'm so jealous. And there's work things and he's on the West coast and sometimes, I mean, I know you to date this girl in LA and so, you know, I get scared and his best friend's girlfriend told me about this girl in LA, but I mean, I've never seen anything on the phone. So I don't know, should I go through his phone? Should I do this? 

[00:16:24] Sarah Ramsey: So that's spaghetti thinking in a term, you guys are probably familiar with. Yeah. 

[00:16:30] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: And you did a very good impression of a jealousy junkie for sure. Cuz that's what we do. Yes. Yes. 

[00:16:36] Sarah Ramsey: A very good impression of me a few years ago. I had a first-row seat to that show. That's actually a real-life example. But I say it to say, okay, solving the problem of him traveling for work, maybe we do have a conversation about him working out of town.

[00:16:56] Sarah Ramsey: Maybe that's a practical problem that we actually talk about. But when it's all wrapped up in all those 20 other problems of his best friends, girlfriends trying to talk me outta something right? It's like, whoa, how do you even begin to move forward in that? And so you don't, you move in circles and you're tired and you're exhausted, and you're fighting with yourself, you're fighting with him, you're fighting with everyone, right? And it's not the way to happiness, it's just not. 

[00:17:22] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So then really kind of pulling and untangling that swirl of spaghetti and let me take this one piece out and I think the important piece that you started to say but I just wanna make sure that we mention is it doesn't mean I have to solve each and every one of these all right now, 

[00:17:42] Sarah Ramsey: First step, it's kinda like learning a different language. Like it's easier to understand once you see this, you could not unsee it. Like once I've said it for the rest of your life. Now someone's gonna talk and you're gonna go, oh, they're in spaghetti thinking!

[00:17:56] Sarah Ramsey: And then you're gonna try to like dissect which problem, It's a superpower. If there's a problem, you're gonna solve, think in your head, What problem am I trying to solve? Maybe it's being jealous. Okay? You brain dump all that spaghetti into a paragraph, you know, 10 sentences or so, just free flowing, no right answers, no wrong answers.

[00:18:15] Sarah Ramsey: Free flowing 10 sentences, then watch. Sentence one, number one, sentence two, number two, sentence three, number three. If you just put it on a paper and get it out of your head and brain dump the spaghetti. And then take each sentence and put a 1, 2, 3, 4 by it, that will open your world in a way that you have no idea.

[00:18:39] Sarah Ramsey: Cause it's like, okay, like in my case, how am I going to manage my emotion? When he can't call after work. That is entirely separate. That's its own problem, right? Like if he's responsible for managing my emotions if he doesn't call and I don't, well, I'll say this, a different problem solve is how do I communicate with him how that makes me feel.

[00:19:02] Sarah Ramsey: And we're sticking that emotional problem and that communication problem or practical problem together, we're going to get in the fight. But if you look at it as a separate problem, here's an emotional problem to solve, here's a practical problem to solve and unravel that spaghetti. It is literally that easy, free, easy.

[00:19:19] Sarah Ramsey: What problem am I trying to solve? Bring the spaghetti out. Take each sentence and put either 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and then start to tackle the problem that you wanna tackle first and that feels most accessible or the most important problem. You can really start to go, oh, okay, now what do I need to take action on?

[00:19:37] Sarah Ramsey: Which one of these, maybe there's eight things, you know, that you just came up with in just one quick session of my husband works out of town, and then trying to choose that one. It's typically like what's gonna make the biggest difference the fastest, or sometimes it's the easiest to tackle.

[00:19:54] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: That's how I started with my jealousy, you know, let me tackle this one habit at a time. And this one, I know I'm pretty confident that I can be successful in this one. So let me try that one first and get some success behind me and motivation. 

[00:20:08] Sarah Ramsey: And then sometimes the problem to solve is just so obvious that you're like, Oh, okay, we'll be doing this one. So it's, people are very good at solving their problems once they create that list. And we live in the information age, you can literally Google. You can't Google that spaghetti. You could like Google an article on this, like how to talk to a sibling about family Christmas, how to talk...right.

[00:20:33] Sarah Ramsey: It's everywhere. Like it's all searchable now, but we can't search the spaghetti because it's a mess. 

[00:20:39] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Yeah. That's a very long, uh, what do they call it? Long form key...

[00:20:44] Sarah Ramsey: Yeah. Keyword search. 

[00:20:47] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Yeah. We can't do that in that situation. It's way too much. Yeah. That's really good. You had a really great question in your book as well, or, uh, something that I think about is, most people cannot lay out their strategy of how they solve a problem.

[00:21:05] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: I thought, Oh, she is right. I don't have a strategy that I could just rattle off of, Oh, I have this problem, how am I going to solve it? So, I thought that was incredible. 

[00:21:17] Sarah Ramsey: If you like, implement this like 35,000 decisions a day, if you can make a hundred of them easier, what kinda impact does that have on your life?

[00:21:24] Sarah Ramsey: If you can make 10 of them easier, what kinda impact does that have on your life? And here's the second magic question. I told you guys I was in relationships stuff and toxic relationship stuff. And here's the co-dependency cure, ready? 

[00:21:36] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:36] Sarah Ramsey: Is this is my problem to solve or your problem to solve? Your emotions, your issues, your anger, your, these are your problems to solve.

[00:21:47] Sarah Ramsey: Just like when I'm super jealous and I'm creating chaos in my relationship, that's my problem to solve. 

[00:21:54] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: Yeah, and I think that's a great technique to use because especially for people who are insecure that are really having a hard time in their relationship. They lack that self-confidence, whatever those reasons are.

[00:22:10] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: I think that's one thing, is them taking on things that may not belong to them. So not only are we dealing with our own things that we need to work on and that we need to address, but then we're also taking on a lot of other people's, in particularly our partners as well.

[00:22:29] Sarah Ramsey: Absolutely, absolutely right. And it's just such an easy, I call it the magic question and then the second magic question, five seconds, 10 seconds.

[00:22:39] Sarah Ramsey: And if you're not sure what problem you're trying to solve, ask yourself kind of three or four times, what problem am I trying to solve? What problem am I really trying to solve? What am I really, really trying to solve? You know, in my own jealousy thing, it might have said, what problem am I trying to solve?

[00:22:52] Sarah Ramsey: I don't want my husband to travel for work. Okay, What, problem you really trying to solve? I get nervous when he's traveling for work. I get nervous that he's gonna find someone else. What problem you really trying to solve? You know, I don't wanna be alone. I don't wanna start over again. Okay. What problem are you really trying to solve? I don't know if I'm good enough. I don't know if he's really gonna choose me. 

[00:23:11] Sarah Ramsey: And you see as it gets deeper and guys, you can do this while you're waiting for your food to come out at a restaurant. You can do it while you are waiting to pick up the kids from ball practice. Right. Right. 

[00:23:23] Sarah Ramsey: So it’s just you and you got the notes on your phone, Hey, I got 10 minutes to kill or get clarity on one of the biggest things disrupting your life. 

[00:23:32] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: And you call that the seven-level problem solving. And I love it because, and even in just the example that you gave was so spot on and so important because it sounded like the initial problem was your husband traveling.

[00:23:46] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: But then when you keep asking that question and you keep going down further and further and further, what probably the truth is, is you are afraid they're going to leave you or you feel like you are not good enough. And I think that's kind of at the bottom level there of where you landed. So if we're focused on like, Oh, I don't want him to travel anymore, and that's the conversation that you're having about him traveling again, you're not really solving the real problem. 

[00:24:14] Sarah Ramsey: And you'll be fighting for the next 10 years. And then if he stops traveling, you're still upset. He's mad. He's so mad. It's like, Yeah, I tried to save this relationship. I changed jobs for you. I did this and you're still on my back about this. And that's unfair. Right? Right. Like that's not good. That's not nice, right? The closer you can get to the real problem. Just like when you have a toddler and you know, parenting is pretty normal. Parenting, it's like, okay, your baby's crying.

[00:24:43] Sarah Ramsey: Well, maybe they're hungry, maybe they're tired. Maybe they're, they're cranky. Maybe they just need a hug. We look for the real problem when it's our kids because we want to solve the right problem. 

[00:24:54] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: I love it, and this has been an amazing conversation. Sarah, I appreciate you being on Jealousy Junkie. Check out Sarah's podcast, Toxic Person Proof. Thank you, Sarah. 

[00:25:06] Sarah Ramsey: Thanks so much.

[00:25:11] Shanenn Bryant - Jealousy Junkie: For further support, opportunities for free group coaching, and so much more, join me inside the Jealousy Junkie Facebook group. The link to join is in the show notes. Until next time, take care and remember, you're not alone.