Why Your Anxious Attachment Picks Terrible Partners EP 126

Shanenn Bryant (00:02.222)

After overcoming his anxious attachment, breaking his jaw, ending a toxic relationship and leaving a corporate career at Tesla, he found his purpose in helping others find their secure self. Trevor Hansen is a coach and founder of The Art of Healing. Welcome to the show. Happy that you're here.

Trevor (00:24.264)

Thank you for having me, I'm excited to be here with you.

Shanenn Bryant (00:27.283)

Yes, we were talking before we started recording. So you have definitely some experience in being with someone who is jealous in their relationship. We'll get to that later, but tell me, I mean, I get that you had some things that happened in your life. Tell me how you got to understand anxious attachment and how that became to be.

Trevor (00:53.756)

Yeah. So I think all my life I, I had struggled in feeling confident and feeling like I had a place, whether it was like with peers and especially when I started like dating, then it was like, man, like, this, I guess just these fears of like not being enough or not being chosen or being, you know, I, and then the word abandonment sounds really harsh, but if we break down the actual definition, it's like,

Yeah, just you not choosing to be with me like maybe once choosing me and then not in the future. And I think a lot of those fears like ruled my life and my relationships. Not professionally. Professionally, I was always very confident. It was almost like a head scratcher where I was like, why am I so confident here and not there? And I didn't have a word for it. I didn't have a name to put to it. Eventually, you know, I find this term anxious attachment and so on. There was quite a bit of pain that came before that realization. But yeah, I think most of my life I just really, really struggled in that, in that way and didn't know what to do about it or even what to call it.

Shanenn Bryant (02:01.786)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, it can definitely like, what is this thing? I think that is how most people like, I don't even know how to even explain it, much less have a word for it or even know it exists, right?

Trevor (02:16.294)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's, you know, it's, so helpful when you can start to actually like describe it and you realize that other people are facing the same thing. because he, I dunno, there's a bit of hopefulness to that. If like, if other people are facing this, then that just doesn't mean I'm like fundamentally flawed or broken or crazy. And there's probably going to be some resources because if you get enough people feeling pain, they're going to start demanding of the world of the system that we live in some sort of solutions. And so I think that's one of the blessings to understanding an issue. will say awareness alone doesn't change it though. 

You can be aware all day. Some of the most dysfunctional people I know are also therapists. I mean, I got a license, have a master's in marriage and family therapy, the whole thing. And I'm around people who have all the knowledge and awareness in the world, but they still struggle.

And so there's a big difference between just knowing and then actually changing it. But knowing is a great, place to start.

Shanenn Bryant (03:14.264)

Mm-hmm.

Shanenn Bryant (03:21.506)

Yeah, yeah, well, I'd love to get into that because I think that's where a lot of people are. If they have heard about it before or they, you know, they have some awareness, I think in a lot of cases too, some people initially will blame their partner for their jealousy. Like, if you didn't look at her, I wouldn't feel this way. Or if you didn't do this thing, then I wouldn't feel insecure. And then they kind of get to a point where it's like, maybe this is me. So this might be a me thing, but you're right.

Trevor (03:37.896)

Yeah.

Trevor (03:46.11)

Hmm. Yeah.

Shanenn Bryant (03:50.208)

Okay, just knowing that I'm still doing the same things. I'm still showing up the same way. I'm still behaving the same way and it's very painful, right?

Trevor (03:58.258)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, it's, it's this weird balance between like understanding why a person might, if you've got like jealous tendencies and you know, you're looking for your through your partner's phone, you're kind of trying to in a way control the outcome, you know, making sure they don't, they don't do something that feels threatening or betraying to you. Then it, the knowledge and the awareness of why you feel that way is important and that's a compassionate lens. 

I will say there's a balance between looking at what has happened for you in your history. Let's say you had a betrayal in a relationship or you had a really emotionally distant parent growing up and those are two examples of something that could result in a person who feels a little bit more jealous. Two of probably infinite examples but a person who has that jealousy and that fear and honestly anxious attachment, jealousy and fear. We're kind of talking about the same thing. Really. 

You put whatever label on it. It's just we're getting more specific on, I guess, the byproducts or the symptoms of an anxious attachment. Yeah. When we're describing it. But when we look at the narrative of, that makes sense. Why I feel the way I do. It doesn't end there. It's not. And so therefore it's everybody else's responsibility to fix it because I didn't create this.

It still is our responsibility to overcome it and change it. it and honestly the compassionate understanding of why you feel the way you do is so important to changing it and healing it. I'm getting maybe too deep in the woods too quickly, but I can't help but mention that.

Shanenn Bryant (05:42.274)

Yeah, well, I think, and we were talking before we started recording that the biggest thing and the thing I talk about all the time is the shame of it. And I think that's where you're going, right? Part of where you're going is the shame is so heavy for someone who is dealing with this, who has anxious attachment or any of the other insecure attachment styles. And that is the part that really keeps us stuck. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Trevor (05:56.147)

Yeah.

Trevor (06:08.337)

Yeah, so if we think about, we'll talk about anxious attachment in particular. We'll kind of paint, let's paint the story of a person. Let's say is your listeners mainly women or men?

Shanenn Bryant (06:23.547)

Mostly women, but I do have male clients as well. Yeah.

Trevor (06:25.118)

You got some guys. Okay. We'll use a woman example today. So let's say we got Amy. And Amy, she grew up in a home where love felt like it had to be earned. She had a really critical mom. Yeah, mom didn't really smile or like give her a lot of like praise unless she was doing everything perfect. She comes home with the A minus and it's not about the other A's, it's all about the A minus, right? What happened here? Why didn't you make that better?

Meanwhile, she might have a dad who's a little bit more difficult to connect with emotionally. So this builds in her and I know I'm taking a long answer to the shame thing, but I think it's important to build context. This builds in her these fears that others aren't going to be there for her, that they're not just going to love her as she is. And so fast forward in her life, these become jealousies. They become fears in relationships, feeling like I'm not enough as I am.

And so I got to control my partner's behavior. I believe my partner is going to step out on me or they're going to be checking out other girls or they're going to be, you know, the whole story goes on. And if we look at why Amy feels the way she does is she had an unmet emotional need. She ought to have gotten love and acceptance and closeness and praise. Instead she got criticism and judgment. She ought to have gotten, you know, that warm embrace from her father and that closeness there, but maybe she just got kind of a cold and professional relationship. 

And so it was this gap, and really it's a love gap, right? It's a love gap where love should have been expressed, and it doesn't mean that her parents were unloving people. They probably felt a lot of love in their heart for her, but their capacity to express it in a healthy way, their own wounding probably caused them to show up in this way, but she's got this love gap.

And then if she grows up and starts to realize her jealous tendencies, she gets told you're too much, you're so controlling, you're this, that, and the other. And she starts to see it as, you know, maybe parts of what is said there is kind of true. Maybe there is an expression of control. Maybe the hypervigilance does become a little bit too much to handle in a relationship, but she'll internalize it as not my behavior's too much or my behavior's controlling. 

It's I'm too much. I'm flawed. I'm wrong. And what she's doing in that moment is only giving herself the same thing she got from mom and dad, the love gap. She's not holding herself in compassion and understanding. so Amy herself is re-injuring herself in the same way that mom and dad did. And so she's only doubling down on the wounding that was already there.

Trevor (09:13.788)

And it's like, you think you're going to get better? You're going to think you're going to stop controlling or feel like you're good enough if you beat yourself up in the same way? Well, that's probably not going to work too well. And so that's why it's so important that we move away from shame and move towards compassion and ownership or responsibility, compassion and ownership. They exist in the same plane. You compassionately understand why you feel the way you do and why this comes from and which is love, you're giving yourself the thing you never got, you're filling the love gap, and then ownership is the ability to take accountability for how do I want to show up now in this relationship. I don't want to play the victim, I do want to change this behavior which leads to the happily ever afters because now you're showing up in a new way.

Shanenn Bryant (10:00.992)

Mm-hmm. I love the part that you said, and I think this is really important for people to hone in on is it's the behavior. It isn't you, right? This isn't like all of you. It's not all you have to offer. It isn't that you're so fundamentally broken. It's the behavior as a result of, right?

Trevor (10:22.756)

Absolutely, absolutely. the problematic behaviors, like let's go back to Amy's example. Let's say she's, I've lived this, so I'm gonna tell you from first person, I've been the guy in this story. And I've had my own insecurities, right? We started out by saying that that was my issue, but we'll go back to Amy. Let's say that because of these fears, Amy has picked partners that aren't good for her. She's just kind of in a way settled.

She's picked people that look like they're almost a project because she doesn't believe she's lovable. So if she can be valuable, she doesn't have to be lovable. She can keep them close just by providing value. And so what she does is she picks up all these guys who aren't solid themselves and she experiences betrayal because of it. These guys are seeking validation from other women. They're looking at porn. They're maybe actually.

Trevor (11:19.262)

Getting into some sort of a fair situation and it's only reconfirming Amy's beliefs that she's not good enough that others are gonna leave her and at the heart of it Those same fears led her to pick the guys who are more likely to do that and you can see how it just doubles down and doubles down and it continues and then eventually when she gets into a relationship with a guy who is healthy Maybe by some, you know happenstance it

I will say it's probably going to be hard for her to do that, but like on a whim, maybe it does happen. He's very faithful. He's very solid. But then she projects all of those fears onto him. They're walking through the grocery store and she's basically wanting him to look at the floor. That you can't even look around because if you catch a woman, you see one, she doesn't have to be a woman. She could be a 14 year old girl and I'm going to be accusing you of checking her out. And I'm so afraid. And then he's going, whoa, this is too much. He backs up.

He leaves the relationship and again it confirms Amy's fear that, everyone leaves me, I'm not good enough. She's got to break the pattern because the protective behavior creates more of the abandonment or rejection or all the things she's afraid of.

Shanenn Bryant (12:35.222)

Yeah, I think it's really important to bring up, so thank you for doing that, about we get into, potentially, relationships with people who they were going to do that no matter who they were in a relationship with, right? I mean, that is them, and that's the kind of person, because we don't have that love for ourself. We don't think that we're worth it.

Trevor (12:48.862)

100%.

Trevor (12:58.92)

Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And it's a difficult and painful cycle to be in if somebody's listening to this, like, my gosh, maybe that's me. Like, I keep finding those guys, I keep staying in relationships. And I think it all comes down to really understanding and healing and working on the core fears and insecurities that drive this cycle. You can spend all day.

You know, coming up with a list of criteria for guys you want or working on communication skills. I think that's surface level and it's gonna help. Sure, if you learn how to set a boundary, maybe you boundary out and boundary in the kind of guys you don't want and the kind of guys you do. And sure, that could happen, but you will naturally set those healthy boundaries. You will naturally not put up with the people who aren't meant for you or will re-injure you.

If at your core you are more secure, meaning focus less on your behavior and focus honestly more on healing your wounding. And specifically if you're this person, your wounding probably comes down to two things. Fear of abandonment, abandonment wound, I'm afraid everyone's going to leave me. And the I'm not good enough wound. I don't believe that I'm enough and they kind of play on each other. If I don't believe I'm enough, then of course people are going to abandon me. Of course I'm going to believe that they're going to leave me. 

So if you focus on those two, then all the other stuff starts to get better. You're picking better partners, you're not putting up with bull crap that's not good for you, you're setting boundaries, all the good stuff, it just happens naturally.

Shanenn Bryant (14:39.096)

Right. Yeah. And you mentioned, which this a hundred percent is what I did in the past. I know what a lot of clients do when they get in relationship with someone and you, you were talking about, I think almost like taking it on as a project, but this is a way I can show value. And sometimes that looks like, I mean, they're doing everything in the relationship, right? Though the more I do in this relationship, the more I give, the more things I do for them, the more all of that.

That is how I feel worthy instead of just that is not how that doesn't equal my value, the doing.

Trevor (15:17.298)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it makes sense, again, the compassionate lens, if we bring it back in, back to our example, our Amy example, she had to earn love from mom or dad, had to do her song and dance. So she learned that like, in order to get attention or love, like I gotta be valuable. I can't just be me. It has to be transactional. And when you see love as transactional, then yeah, it can lead to.

It can lead to performing to be loved or feeling that constant anxiety that you're not doing enough, which can lead to over-functioning and people pleasing. And if you're over-functioning and people pleasing, you're not getting your needs met because you're not actually asking for what you want. You're just so focused on making sure that they're happy, which you can see all of those, all those paths we go down lead to the relationship dysfunction. But the cool thing is, is we flip it on its head. There's so much hope in the opposite.

Shanenn Bryant (16:04.536)

Right.

Trevor (16:14.702)

This negative cycle that we're talking about, it also works in reverse. You can flip it on its head and have the most glorious, amazing relationships and closeness and commitment that you've ever had. And so that's the hope.

Shanenn Bryant (16:26.262)

Yeah. So I'd love to start talking about that because, you know, we said awareness alone, we know that that doesn't change it. And I think where people start to get really frustrated with this is like, I'm making this conscious effort. Like, I'm going to tell myself I'm not going to be jealous this time, or I'm not going to worry about this thing, or I'm going to pick a better guy. And then we know, like, that doesn't, it doesn't work, right? It might work a small percentage of the time.

Trevor (16:44.851)

Yeah.

Trevor (16:48.275)

Yeah.

It doesn't do it. No.

Shanenn Bryant (16:56.086)

And then they get really frustrated, like, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to change my behavior.

Trevor (17:01.266)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So there's a concept that I think is very, important here. And a lot of lot of individuals are stuck. Maybe they're trying everything. They're reading books. They're listening to podcasts like this. They're even maybe going to therapy or coaching and what they're getting. They don't know why they're getting stuck because they're getting all of this information that feels so good. It feels like a revelation. They're like, I could teach a class on this, right?

And just like the therapist who has a PhD and is still dysfunctional in their relationship, you're getting caught in the information overload. And I always say information doesn't lead to transformation. Information is a head change, not a heart change. So if you imagine different parts of your brain and how they respond to input, input can take in, we'll talk about just two forms of input. 

One is logical information and the other one is emotional experience. It's not really information. It's just experience. so logic, there's a part of your brain, the front part of your brain that understands logic. When you learn something, it goes in there. That's where the part of your brain that actually works through things like timelines and logic and reasoning. 

When you're listening to this podcast, when you're reading the book, when you're just talking about your week or your awareness of your patterns and, and all of that with maybe your coach or therapist, you're picking up the logic pen and you're writing things in the front part of your brain. I understand why I have this issue. And you get a whole bunch of information, that's great. But what happens is that that information doesn't access the base part of your brain where all of your emotion happens. so, and your emotion, emotional part of your brain or that base brain is also where your attachment style lives, essentially. 

That's where your programming is. And so if you wanna access that part of the brain, you need to use emotional levers you need to have emotional experiences that bring you there and I can give you some examples but too often we're getting caught in intellectualizing our challenges rather than accessing the emotional experiences that are required for reprogramming the nervous system or the attachment style and I know I'm going on forever but I'll end with this is you think about Amy's example

Trevor (19:24.218)

Mom and dad didn't sit her down and teach her, you need to be afraid that everyone's going to leave you and that you're not good enough. They gave her an experience that was emotional. And from that she learned to believe and behave and feel the way she does.

Shanenn Bryant (19:32.792)

Yeah.

Shanenn Bryant (19:38.478)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it makes sense because we hear it all the time, right? Like, I know or even I will ask my clients all the time. Do you believe he's cheating on you? No. But right, the answer is almost always, always no. I don't believe it. It's not changing my behavior though. Right? Because like you said, they're mine knows, but it's their attachment that.

Trevor (19:51.196)

No, the answer's no.

Trevor (19:55.272)

Yeah. Yep.

Trevor (20:00.178)

Yeah. Yeah.

Trevor (20:04.734)

Mm-hmm.

Shanenn Bryant (20:07.467)

is still showing up.

Trevor (20:07.932)

Yeah. And you know, it's a really fun way of seeing this and you've probably heard of this before. If you're listening to this show and you've, you also probably heard of it. but I like to reframe this idea, you know, even just saying like, that's my attachment style inside of me. that sounds a little bit dry and a little bit clinical. I like to see it as this inner child, this little part of me, right? Let's go back to Amy's example.

Maybe she was six, seven, know, her whole growing up. She's got this little version of her, quite literally her nervous system wired together in this particular way. So it's not even just this metaphorical or spiritual concept. It's she quite literally has this inner child in her, a part of her nervous system that's stuck in the childhood type phase. And so when she feels that fear to check her partner's phone or to people please, to prove that she's good enough through actions rather than just knowing she's good enough. That's the little her. 

That's the little Amy. For me, the little Trevor was always trying to prove that he was good enough. He, you know, on dates, make sure you say the right thing. Make sure you're showing up, you know, well, and he's overthinking what is sending in a text message. There's a logical part of me that knows, I don't need to do that. That's a waste of my time. I'm good enough as I am. And so if we can learn to take the adult self,

The one that knows your partner's not cheating on you. The one who has wisdom. The one who probably also has the capacity to nurture and love and care for a little kiddo who's in distress. We take that part of us and we learn how to turn it towards the fearful part with gentle words, maybe even visualizations, seeing that younger self, holding them and saying, hey, guess what? Little Trev, you're okay, bud. You actually don't need to worry. Because even if she doesn't like you,

You got a whole world of beautiful things. I'm here for you. No one's leaving you. And you do these kinds of exercises. These are the kind of things that we do in our work. You will have an emotional experience of compassion, self-love. You'll build self-trust. You'll build confidence because you actually feel it. You don't just understand the concept.

Shanenn Bryant (22:27.15)

Yeah, that's so good to think about it as, know, again, it's not everything about you and that you do have as an adult the capacity to, as you said, like care for this little one that didn't get what they should have. It's like you have this opportunity to do that.

Trevor (22:43.996)

Yeah.

Trevor (22:47.73)

Yeah, it is so exciting, honestly. It's like you change everything. Like you can see your problem as like, I'm this raging, anxiously attached, jealous individual. And this is this part, this, this is all of me. First of all, you just categorize your whole self as that. So first you peel back a layer of shame and saying, it's actually just a part of me. And then you define that part no longer as this problem to be solved, but a person to be loved.

Shanenn Bryant (23:02.21)

Yeah.

Trevor (23:17.992)

You're no longer a problem to be solved, but a person to be loved. And specifically that part of you, it's your job now to love them. And it's like, wow, this is cool. This changed it from me fighting against my anxious attachment style to me being in relationship with it, with my inner child. It's an ongoing relationship. mean, people who work with us, they'll talk about almost as if it's like an ongoing conversation all day.

I remember I had a partner who would always refer to it as her little girl. She's like, yeah, today my little girl was like saying this and I was thinking this and I was talking to her and like as if she just like if somebody heard our conversation, they would think it was like her daughter. And I was like, that's so beautiful. Like how she's doing. And she's like, yeah, she's trusting me. She's good. She's no longer driving. She's in the backseat. Like I'm driving today and I'm like, that's great. You know, and we would talk about it as if it really is this ongoing relationship that's building in it.

Shanenn Bryant (23:56.739)

Right.

Trevor (24:14.192)

It makes the process much more fun and easy and honestly connecting within yourself.

Yeah, what a beautiful example of building trust too, that you just described. Like, this child, like I'm teaching this child that you can't, like you can trust in people, in me, right? I'm here for you, I'm showing up for you. So therefore people can be trusted and learning that, right? That's beautiful.

Trevor (24:27.144)

Yeah.

Trevor (24:39.23)

Yeah.

Trevor (24:43.272)

Yes. Yeah. And here's the thing. If you are with your you are with yourself more than anybody is ever with you. I know that sounds silly, but like it's just the truth. Right. If if there's a main character in your movie, it's going to be you. You're the one on screen the most. It's you are always with you. And so you have the greatest capacity to influence how you feel because we know the way people treat us does influence how we feel. We'd like to say we're,

unflappable and how other people treat us doesn't matter and we're totally secure all the time and well even the most secure people that's not true. I mean everyone's going to feel something in regards to that but if you can change the way you interact with yourself that I mean my goodness that's going to build a baseline of trust that then can extend to other people and I always tell people this too if you're wanting reassurance from your partner.

Shanenn Bryant (25:37.826)

Mm-hmm.

Trevor (25:42.48)

If you're wanting love and validation and you don't give it to yourself first, you're putting the whole burden on them. You're outsourcing the work that you can do for you. And it's not to say that you should expect, you know, the healthy expectations that your partner gives you no reassurance or no validation and love. Yes, that's called a relationship. They got to give it to you. But my goodness, like, why don't you first just give yourself a dose of that before starting to try to find it from someone else?

How cool would that be? Just fill up your cup as much as you can before you expect somebody to pour it in, pour into it for you.

Shanenn Bryant (26:19.402)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because that's like that constant cycle. We have this feeling of jealousy, this pain in us, this trigger, and then we go to our partner. Like we can't handle, we don't like the emotional, like the way that it makes us feel, we can't handle that. So then we go to our partner, get the reassurance. Okay, I feel better for a minute. And then right back to it. I need it again. Yeah.

Trevor (26:44.094)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Right back to it. And it's when you're always when you're always outsourcing your own peace and your own self worth, you will always be on this roller coaster ride where your emotions are dictated by what's happening around you rather than what's happening within you. I don't want to live that way. That sounds pretty miserable, right? It's it's the person who has

the solid foundation within themselves where they find peace despite circumstances. When you can fill up your own cup, you're never thirsty. Well, I would say you're never on the verge of death because of thirst. You might have moments where you want a bit more, when you have some longings and some needs, but you will always survive when you can fill up your own cup.

Shanenn Bryant (27:39.918)

Well, and sometimes that's what makes a breakup feel so horrific too, because like, well now I just like this person who is fulfilling my needs all the time and validating me all the time. That's how I was feeling good and now that's gone. So then it's a major thing if we break up, which makes me even more afraid that we're gonna break up, right?

Trevor (27:52.232)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my goodness, yes. You know, I was sitting, this is a pretty surreal setting. So I do this thing sometimes with clients. I live in Hawaii and people will fly to Hawaii to work with me for two days and we do two days of deep work, like one-on-one. It's like 16 hours of doing work together over the two days because they're full days. And we're sitting on this beach this last weekend with a young man and He was describing how when he doesn't get a text back, how it feels like he's going to die. He describes it. He's like, I feel like I'm going to die. 

Like my heart rate goes up. I literally feel like it's it's life or death. And I all I did is say, why do you think it is that you feel like it feels like death? Like that's a very specific word. Why death? And he goes, well, I think because there was enough neglect growing up and growing up when you're little, if you are neglected, then you will die. It is life or death. And so I think I've started to learn that attention equals life and a lack of attention equals death. And my brain and body doesn't know the difference. And you know, we sit there and it's like, Whoa, what a revelation. And even in that moment, he had the emotional experience. And this is cool because that awareness, sure it's awareness, logical. If we stopped there, then it wouldn't have that profound of an impact. But I drew him back to the emotion.

And so if somebody's listening and they go, but how do I have these emotional experiences, Trevor? This might be an example. As you have awareness, pay attention to the way it makes you feel. Really focus on, wow. And if I can think about maybe that younger self that was neglected, who needed that love? What do I feel towards them? Do I feel compassion? And in that moment, you know, we're sitting in this beautiful place. It's unreal. Like I have to describe it because it's just so cool. We're in the shade. It's early morning in Hawaii.

Trevor (29:55.694)

The waves are big, they're crashing over the reef and we're sitting safely inside on the sand. And he's just going, I feel so much compassion for this part of me. it just wells up within him. And from that moment forward, he's been able to let go of the shame when he's waiting for the text back and he feels like he's going to die a little bit. A, he doesn't feel like he's going to die quite as much now because he's had that experience of kind of healing it. And then also,

He just has a removal of shame. He's like, yeah, of course I feel that way. Yeah, that makes sense. And because the realization, brings down the intensity too. It's like, yeah, it's just my feeling. It's okay.

Shanenn Bryant (30:30.446)

That makes sense.

Shanenn Bryant (30:37.09)

Yes, that makes sense, right? That I think that even just saying that to yourself is a part of helping. Like that makes sense that I would feel this way. Of course I would feel this way. Yeah. And it's not this tragic thing.

Trevor (30:46.782)

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense is. Yes, it's validation and validation is is validation and I will say connection are the two things that destroy shame like nothing else connection because that's the moment when you sit in a room and go, holy cow, I'm a lot like all of you. And now I no longer feel like this crazy person. But validation is exactly what we're saying is that that makes sense.

And it's got to make sense. You gotta get to the point where it really does make sense, not only to your head, but to your heart and where you can feel it. That's the emotional transformation beyond just that makes logical sense, but it makes sense to my heart. And I feel the compassion. That's what real validation is. So I guess I'm adding three now, compassion, validation, and connection. If we get those three things, we're gonna take out so much of the shame and then.

Shanenn Bryant (31:27.822)

Mm-hmm.

Trevor (31:44.392)

the road to healing is so much easier.

Shanenn Bryant (31:47.98)

Yeah, yeah, amazing. I wanna ask to see if you have any thoughts that you could provide to the listener. So one of the things that comes up often for those that have the insecure attachment style is, is it me or is it them? Right, because like, is my partner really doing this or is it just my jealousy? And they stay so stuck in that.

And even especially when they get the awareness of like, Ooh, I might be a bad partner picker because of it. did I pick a bad partner or is it just me? Is it them? Is it me? How do we work through that? Solve for that quiet that.

Trevor (32:34.632)

So there's probably a bunch of short-term solutions that we could plug in, problem solving in that moment that could be helpful. And I'm not gonna discount those, but I think they're so situational that it'd be hard for us to really even talk about them here. So I wanna pivot into a broader approach that actually takes a bit more work. It's a bit more of a long-term approach, but it's the most sustainable one over time. So you don't keep finding yourself in the, it me, is it them?

Shanenn Bryant (32:51.779)

Yeah.

Trevor (33:04.574)

crap. So if you're committed to doing the real work, this is what I would say. Becoming secure, healing the wounds, healing the fears of abandonment, healing the fears of I'm not good enough at its core. We're going to kind of take a few steps down and like almost reverse engineer this for a second. So and obviously it's not black and white. That's a process that's going to happen over time.

Sometimes you're be more healed and less healed, but generally, let's say moving towards being secure. A secure person is approaching a relationship in a different way. If you're already in a relationship, you are going to be less likely to, for example, be over critical or ask for your needs.

with a lot of fear and anxiety. And so if you're asking with less fear and anxiety, you're probably making suggestions and requests and being more curious rather than being demanding or judgmental. If you're more secure, you're going to more easily recognize patterns of safety and take comfort in them from your partner. So if your partner is safe, you're going to start to notice how they are safe and you're no longer going to discount what they are doing that is safe.

Shanenn Bryant (34:02.638)

Yeah.

Trevor (34:19.838)

And if they're not, you're going to be a lot more clear on that too, because your self-respect is going to be way higher. And if your self-respect is going to be up, your kind of intuition on, that's actually not okay for me. That's not good for me. Going to be much, much higher. And it will say this in the gray areas where you're not sure. You're like, is that behavior okay? Is it not okay? If you're secure, you have the capacity to approach that situation with curiosity rather than

Control, curiosity is, I'm curious, when you did that thing or you were following this girl still or you did that, what's that about? Tell me, help me understand. It's bringing kind of scary feelings for me. I wanna work through it together, right? There's vulnerability and curiosity. Control is just, I gotta control my behavior and make sure that I'm not the psycho one checking out your phone all the time.

pushing myself into a box of control or I'm controlling you. But I mean like, you gotta unfollow these people, I gotta look and I gotta see who you're liking and just get off Instagram in general. Like don't even be on there, right? I'm just using that example. So I would say the more secure you are, the better inputs you will have into the relationship and you will let go of control. That doesn't mean you'll let go of safety. And if the relationship continues to show signs that it's not safe, you'll then have the...

Shanenn Bryant (35:24.866)

Yeah.

Shanenn Bryant (35:29.709)

Yeah.

Trevor (35:47.432)

with self-respect and capacity to step out and say, nope, this isn't gonna work for me because you're gonna know you're gonna be okay. Right? Too many times, you know the red flags are there, but you're convincing yourself to stay, I did that. my goodness, I did that for way too long. And so, yeah, the answer is, the long-term most sustainable answer is work on your own security and you will have total clarity on whether it's you, whether it's them, you're gonna see it.

Shanenn Bryant (36:12.398)

Clear. Yeah.

Shanenn Bryant (36:16.982)

Yeah, so really it's like, okay, let's set the partner aside. Like we don't have to figure it out right now. Let's just work on ourselves to get to the secure place. And then you're saying it'll be much more clear when you get to that place. Yeah.

Trevor (36:29.672)

Yes, yes, absolutely. It will be so much more clear. And this is what I tell people who are like on the verge of like maybe even a divorce who come into our program. And it's not so much about like, I trust them? Is there infidelity or anything like that? It's more like we just keep like fighting. We just keep having all these issues and I can't stop it. And so what we do there is say like, okay, we can't, there's a difference between manipulation and influence. And this is very, very important.

In a relationship, manipulation is where I'm trying to force a behavior out of my partner. Influence is I'm going to change my behavior. I'm going change the way I show up and it will probably influence better responses from them. Right? A good example is instead of getting really critical and coming down hard on my partner, I'm going to ask kindly and compassionately for what I need. Your partner still has the ability to choose. They can go either way. They might respond to your good input.

Shanenn Bryant (37:04.556)

Yeah.

Trevor (37:28.05)

better and most likely they will. And if they don't, then there's the clarity. they're not actually, I'm doing everything I can. I'm showing up in this new healthy way. I've ruled out me as the factor and I'm realizing, this is just not gonna work for me. And then there's like boundaries and potentially leaving. That's not always the answer to cut and dry, but you can see how it becomes so much more clear. My inputs are great.

Shanenn Bryant (37:33.644)

Right, information.

Trevor (37:54.546)

That's not an issue. We've ruled that out as the bottleneck in our relationship. It's something else.

Shanenn Bryant (38:01.41)

Yeah. so good. Trevor, if people want to get in touch with you, where do they go?

Trevor (38:08.38)

Yeah, so pretty much anywhere I'm at is the Art of Healing by Trevor. That's the name. It's a little too long and I got it originally. Should have probably chose something else, but that's what it is. If you go to Instagram, you go the Art of Healing by Trevor. That's my handle. You go to my website, theartofhealingbytrevor.com. If you go there, there's like a bunch of free trainings and resources. We have what's called the Secure Self Club. It's our program that we help people.

transform from anxiously attached, fearful, insecure, jealous to secure in a matter of months. Too many people are stuck trying for years and that's a real shame. I don't like that. So I want to help you do it much more quickly. So yeah, those are some of the things that you can look at doing. Some of our free resources or if you're interested in the club, we book calls with those who are interested just to make sure it's actually a good fit for them because we never want to sign somebody up for something that's not going to reall change their life in a crazy dramatic way. And so, yeah, that's, those are some of the good places.

Shanenn Bryant (39:11.256)

Great. Okay. Go to the Art of Healing by Trevor. thank you. Thank you so much for being here and for all the insight that you've given us. This was so eye-opening and hopefully people will connect with you. Thank you so much, Trevor.

Trevor (39:29.502)

Okay, thank you.